Record of a Conversation with Jiang Jingguo, Personal Representative of Chiang Kai-shek, December 30, 1945

Source: Tom 18

Record of a Conversation with Jiang Jingguo,

Personal Representative of Chiang Kai-shek

December 30, 1945

21:00

Present: Molotov, Pavlov (NKID), Fu Bingchang, Ambassador of China.

Jiang Jingguo hands Comrade Stalin a letter from Chiang Kai-shek. Comrade Stalin asks whether Chinese troops have already entered Mukden, and if not, who is preventing them from doing so. Perhaps the Communists?

Jiang Jingguo replies that Chinese troops have not yet entered Mukden, but will do so soon. The Communists are not hindering this. Comrade Stalin asks what Jiang Jingguo wishes to say. Jiang Jingguo replies that Chiang Kai-shek asked him to convey to Generalissimo Stalin his gratitude for the fact that Soviet troops, having entered Manchuria, defeated the Japanese militarists and accelerated the capitulation of Japan, and for the assistance that Soviet troops rendered in restoring governmental organs in Manchuria.

Jiang Jingguo says that Chiang Kai-shek, in sending his representative to Generalissimo Stalin, was guided by the following considerations:

1. He considers that Soviet-Chinese relations after the war are becoming even closer and should be strengthened with each passing day in the interests of both peoples. Soviet-Chinese relations can and should be strengthened if a very important condition is observed, namely, if there is full mutual understanding between Generalissimo Stalin and Chiang Kai-shek, who considers that any ambiguities can only cloud matters, while clarity will help resolve them.

2. Chiang Kai-shek considers that there are a number of questions which should not be resolved through diplomatic channels. Therefore, Chiang Kai-shek sent him, Jiang Jingguo, to Generalissimo Stalin, as to his personal friend, to discuss questions of Soviet-Chinese relations.

3. Chiang Kai-shek asked him, Jiang Jingguo, to express to Generalissimo Stalin his respect and trust, and to appeal to Generalissimo Stalin, as a personal friend, with a request that he state his opinion about China, all the doubts he may have, and indicate where he disagrees with the policy that Chiang Kai-shek is pursuing at the present stage.

He, Jiang Jingguo, would like to discuss the following questions with Generalissimo Stalin:

First, he would like to talk about the question of the unification of China. After twenty years of struggle against the Japanese, China faces the question of how to prevent the possibility of a Japanese conspiracy and Japanese intervention. For twenty years the Japanese continuously strove for the destruction of the Chinese people. Therefore, the Guomindang and Chiang Kai-shek concentrated their attention on resolving the national question. As Generalissimo Stalin knows, various political groups exist in China. Chiang Kai-shek strove, on the one hand, to concentrate China's forces on the war against Japan, and on the other hand, he strove for the unification of China. Now Japan is defeated, and it is possible to engage in the democratization of the country, its unification, and the resolution of social questions. All these questions in China can be successfully resolved when China is united. The solution of this task depends above all on the regulation of relations with the Communist Party of China. Chiang Kai-shek recognizes the possibility of the coexistence of the Communist Party of China with the Guomindang, which has no intention of liquidating the Communist Party of China. There are no contradictions between the political lines of the Guomindang and the Communist Party of China. It must be said directly that if the Communist Party of China were to live in peace with the Guomindang, this would save the Guomindang from decay and would compel it to move forward more quickly. But for the coexistence of the Communist Party of China and the Guomindang it is necessary that the Communist Party of China not have the intention of liquidating the Guomindang.

Jiang Jingguo says that before the convening of the National Assembly in May, it has been decided to invite representatives of the Communist Party of China to participate in the government, on the condition that the structure and legal standing of the National Government of China be preserved.

Comrade Stalin asks Jiang Jingguo about the attitude of the Chinese government toward the decisions on China adopted at the Conference of the Three Foreign Ministers.

Jiang Jingguo says that he has not yet read those decisions. Comrade Stalin replies that the three ministers agreed on the necessity of the unification and democratization of China under the leadership of the National Government, on the broad involvement of democratic elements in all organs of the National Government, and on the cessation of civil strife.

Jiang Jingguo replies that, as he thinks, this coincides with the opinion of Chiang Kai-shek, since the decision speaks of democratization under the leadership of the National Government of China. Chiang Kai-shek considers that the Communists may participate in the State Defense Committee, which is the highest organ in the country.

The next point concerns the Communist troops. The Communist Party of China proposed to the government that it permit the existence of 16 to 20 divisions of Communist troops. This proposal was put forward by Mao Zedong during his negotiations with Chiang Kai-shek. Chiang Kai-shek gives his consent to the existence of 16-20 divisions of Communist troops and guarantees their safety. However, since the question is one of the unification of China, the army must be unified, that is, be under a single command. Chiang Kai-shek considers that the Communists should not use their forces to fragment the country. Another condition is the unity of state administration, the requirement that the Communist districts be subordinated to the center. He, Jiang Jingguo, recalls that during the reception of T.V. Soong, Generalissimo Stalin spoke of the unification of China with the preservation of Guomindang hegemony, but with the participation of broad democratic forces.

Jiang Jingguo states that, in the opinion of Chiang Kai-shek, the Soviet Union is interested in the stabilization and unification of China, and he requests Generalissimo Stalin to express his opinion on this matter and whatever doubts he may have. On the other hand, Chiang Kai-shek requests Generalissimo Stalin to give the Communist Party of China the advice to cooperate with the Guomindang. Comrade Stalin replies that the Soviet Union had three representatives with the Communists in Yan'an; the Americans had 30-32 representatives there. The Soviet government recalled all its representatives from Yan'an, as it did not agree with the actions of the Chinese Communists. The Soviet government does not understand why the negotiations in Chongqing fell through.

Comrade Stalin says that the Chinese Communists do not take orders from the Russian Communists. The Comintern no longer exists. It would be very difficult for the Russian Communists to mediate, since they would not want to give advice that would subsequently be rejected. Moreover, the Chinese Communists are not asking for advice.

Jiang Jingguo remarks that the authority of Generalissimo Stalin would compel the Chinese Communists to follow his advice.

Comrade Stalin replies that the Soviet government does not know what the situation is with the Chinese Communists. They are not currently asking for any advice. Earlier, when Soviet troops began entering Manchuria and the Soviet government still had three representatives in Yan'an, the Chinese Communists, through these representatives, asked for advice. And they were told that, in the opinion of the Central Committee of the Russian Communists, the representatives of the Chinese Communists should go to Chongqing for negotiations. The Chinese Communists did not expect such advice, and it caused great alarm among them. He, Comrade Stalin, does not know with what plans the Chinese Communists went to Chongqing. All that is known is that the negotiations failed.

Comrade Stalin says that when the Communists wished to migrate to Manchuria, the Soviet command did not let them in, since the Soviet government did not wish to interfere in the internal affairs of China. In general, it is disadvantageous for Chiang Kai-shek for foreign troops to interfere in China's affairs, since this leads to the weakening of the authority of the central government.

Comrade Stalin says that the reasons for the failure of the negotiations are unknown; perhaps the Chinese Communists went there in order to show that it is impossible to reach an agreement with Chiang Kai-shek.

Comrade Stalin says that he does not know what the Chinese Communists want -- the sovietization of China or the existence of two governments.

Comrade Stalin says that he did not expect that the central government of China would have such difficulties with the Communists, that the Communists would hold up the advance of Chinese troops.

Comrade Stalin declares that the point of view of the Soviet government is set forth in the communique on the Conference of the Three Ministers and in the treaty with China. In both documents the Soviet government states that it recognizes the government of Chiang Kai-shek as the lawful government of China. If the National Government of China involves democratic elements in the government, that will be good for it as well. But apparently the Chinese Communists do not share this concept. What can the Soviet government do here? It considers that there cannot be two governments and two armies, but, as it appears, the Chinese Communists do not agree with this.

Jiang Jingguo remarks that the authority of Generalissimo Stalin can influence the Chinese Communists.

Comrade Stalin replies that the Soviet-Chinese treaty was published, but, as is apparent, the Chinese Communists did not take this document into account. The communique of the ministers' conference has also been published. What follows will show whether the Chinese Communists agree. Apparently not.

Jiang Jingguo asks how the question can best be resolved.

Comrade Stalin says that perhaps the representatives of the Chinese Communists and the Chinese government should get together once more.

Jiang Jingguo replies that Zhou Enlai with a group of 30 people has already arrived in Chongqing.

Comrade Stalin asks whether Jiang Jingguo thinks the Chinese Communists have come to Chongqing for negotiations.

Jiang Jingguo replies in the affirmative and says that the question must be resolved. The present situation cannot continue. In Mongolia there have been real battles between Communist troops and the troops of the central government, and the Chinese Communists have been conducting propaganda to the effect that since the independence of Outer Mongolia has been proclaimed, they will seek the independence of Inner Mongolia.

Comrade Stalin replies that this is stupid, and says that the Soviet government cannot be held responsible for the actions of the Chinese Communists.

Jiang Jingguo says that advice could be given to the Chinese Communists.

Comrade Stalin replies that he does not know whether they want to receive advice. If they ask for advice, it will be given, but otherwise -- God only knows. Once the Chinese Communists asked for advice, went to Chongqing, but did not reach an agreement. Since then they have not asked for advice.

Jiang Jingguo asks Comrade Stalin what he thinks about the proposal of Chiang Kai-shek regarding the number of Chinese divisions.

Comrade Stalin replies that he does not know how many divisions and of what kind the Communists have. The Soviet government has received various reports, sometimes intercepting radio communications. He, Comrade Stalin, does not know whether all these reports can be trusted; he does not know about the number of divisions. As for the Guomindang, in his, Comrade Stalin's, opinion, Chiang Kai-shek is right, just as he is right that there cannot be two governments and two armies in the country. If Chiang Kai-shek intends to keep the Communists as administrators of certain provinces, then in his, Comrade Stalin's, opinion, this can be done, but of course this is a matter for Chiang Kai-shek.

Comrade Stalin says that the Soviet government does not give advice to the Chinese Communists. It is dissatisfied with their behavior. The Chinese Communists have not asked for advice.

Jiang Jingguo asks how the Soviet government would act in the event that the Chinese Communists were to ask for advice.

Comrade Stalin replies that the Soviet government would give them advice in the spirit of what he, Comrade Stalin, has told Jiang Jingguo.

Jiang Jingguo asks what, in the opinion of Comrade Stalin, needs to be done for the unification of China.

Comrade Stalin replies that it is necessary to talk with the Communists and find out what they demand. Comrade Stalin asks why the negotiations in Chongqing failed and why there were battles between Communist troops and the troops of the National Government of China.

Jiang Jingguo replies that he does not know.

Comrade Stalin replies that the Soviet government knows even less.

Jiang Jingguo replies that in the Chongqing negotiations the Communists demanded that all provinces located north of the Yellow River, that is, Rehe, Suiyuan, Hebei, and Chengdu, be headed by Communists. Chiang Kai-shek considers that this would be tantamount to dividing the state into two parts. This was the main disagreement in the negotiations. As for the battles between Communist troops and the troops of the National Government of China, various reasons for their occurrence are cited.

Comrade Stalin replies that the division of China into two parts is, of course, no good.

Jiang Jingguo asks Comrade Stalin to think over what he has set forth.

Comrade Stalin replies that the Soviet government cannot give advice to the Chinese Communists if the Chinese Communists do not approach it for advice. The Soviet government does not wish to find itself in an awkward position in the event that its advice were to be rejected.

Jiang Jingguo says that it is necessary to come to an agreement with the Chinese Communists.

Comrade Stalin says that when parties come to an agreement, they make mutual concessions. The Chinese Communists know that the Soviet government holds views different from theirs. The Chinese Communists know that the Soviet government does not agree with them. Comrade Stalin says that when the Chinese Communists asked for advice, it was given to them. They went to Chongqing but did not reach an agreement; who is to blame for this, he, Comrade Stalin, does not know. He, Comrade Stalin, thinks that the Chinese Communists will not ask for advice again. They know that the Soviet government does not agree with them. Jiang Jingguo says that a political consultative conference is to meet soon, composed of representatives of the Guomindang, the Communist Party of China, the Democratic League of China, and nonpartisans.

Comrade Stalin says that perhaps the Communists came to Chongqing precisely in order to take part in this conference.

Jiang Jingguo replies that, of course, the negotiations will take place mainly between the Communists and the Guomindang.

Comrade Stalin replies that if the Chinese Communists officially approach the Central Committee of the Russian Communists, they will be given advice. But the Central Committee itself does not wish to impose its advice on the Chinese Communists.

Jiang Jingguo replies that, as he thinks, everyone is interested in this question.

Comrade Stalin says that the Communists have some hidden thought. It seems to him, Comrade Stalin, that the Communists went to Chongqing in order to show that it is impossible to reach an agreement with Chiang Kai-shek. On the other hand, Mao Zedong apparently does not trust Chiang Kai-shek, and the latter does not trust Mao Zedong.

Jiang Jingguo says that Chiang Kai-shek and Mao Zedong had very friendly conversations.

Stalin says that this is so, but that at the same time battles were taking place between the troops of both sides. Apparently such are Chinese customs. The Soviet government does not understand this.

Jiang Jingguo says that the next question he would like to discuss with Stalin is the question of Soviet-Chinese relations. Some people think that behind the Chinese Communists, who are waging a struggle against the National Government of China, stands the Soviet Union.

Comrade Stalin replies that they think incorrectly.

Jiang Jingguo declares that the history of Soviet-Chinese relations begins with the October Revolution. Relations between the Soviet Union and China were the very best in 1923-1924. Of course, the situation has now changed compared to 1923-1924, and, of course, it is difficult to apply the old forms; however, Chiang Kai-shek considers that it is in the interests of both sides to return to that spirit of Soviet-Chinese relations which existed in 1923-1924.

Comrade Stalin remarks that at that time there was no treaty.

Jiang Jingguo says that this was at the time when Sun Yat-sen was still alive. This was before the Northern Expedition, when the Whampoa Academy was established. Although times have now changed, Chiang Kai-shek thinks that it would be desirable to return to the spirit of Soviet-Chinese relations of that time. The forms will be different, but Chiang Kai-shek looks far into the future.

Comrade Stalin replies that the Soviet government agrees with this. Now China and the Soviet Union possess better conditions for establishing close relations. In 1923-1924 the situation was different. At that time, the thrust was directed against England and partly against Japan. Now the Soviet Union and, in fact, China, insofar as it fought together with England and the USA against Japan, are in alliance with England and the USA.

Comrade Stalin asks whether the Chinese government really wants the Soviet Union to be against England.

Jiang Jingguo laughs and says that, of course, there can be no question of this, but that the Chinese government wants to return to the spirit of Soviet-Chinese relations of 1923-1924. It strives to make these relations closer than they are now.

Comrade Stalin says that if one question is resolved, this will make things easier. The Soviet government is ready for the closest relations. The alliance between China and the Soviet Union serves as the formal basis for such relations.

Jiang Jingguo says that in 1923 China was guided in its policy by three basic principles: 1) alliance with the USSR, 2) alliance of workers and peasants, and 3) merger of the Communist Party with the Guomindang. At present, the first and second principles remain in force, but the third principle falls away; it is replaced by the principle of involving the Communists in the administration of the state.

Jiang Jingguo says that it would be good to reach an agreement with the Communists, and asks what, in the opinion of Comrade Stalin, is hindering an agreement.

Comrade Stalin says that he does not know. Perhaps what hinders it is that the leaders do not trust each other. Perhaps Zhu De or Mao think that Chiang Kai-shek is deceiving them. In the negotiations between the leaders there is no trust. He, Comrade Stalin, does not know how to restore this trust.

Comrade Stalin remarks that the Americans are not obliged to trust the Russians, and the Russians, in turn, are not obliged to trust the Americans. But when the Russians and Americans conclude an agreement between themselves, each side trusts that the other will fulfill that agreement. That is the kind of trust needed in negotiations. He, Comrade Stalin, is not confident that an agreement, if it were concluded, would not be violated.

Jiang Jingguo says that the Chinese people are tired of the disagreements between the Chinese Communists and the National Government.

Comrade Stalin remarks that this is entirely understandable, since all of this plays out on the backs of the Chinese people.

Jiang Jingguo asks Comrade Stalin whether the Soviet government agrees to the establishment of the closest relations with China.

Comrade Stalin replies that the Soviet government agrees to this. Jiang Jingguo says that Chiang Kai-shek asked him to convey to Generalissimo Stalin an assurance that under any circumstances and conditions, China will not participate in affairs directed against the Soviet Union. Chiang Kai-shek declared that as long as he is in power, this will not happen. Comrade Stalin asks that thanks be conveyed to Chiang Kai-shek for this, and declares that the Soviet government will act in exactly the same manner toward China; only it does not harbor any apprehensions. American and British intelligence agencies are spreading rumors that a war will soon begin between the Soviet Union on one side and England and America on the other. This is disinformation. The Americans and British will not be able to raise their troops for a new war, since there is no objective; Japan is defeated, the people are weary of war. Any government in England or America that tries to raise its troops will inevitably fall. For the very same reasons, the Soviet government also cannot raise troops for war. Perhaps American and British intelligence agencies are spreading this disinformation in order to intimidate both the Soviet Union and China. Nonetheless, he, Comrade Stalin, has always believed and continues to believe that China will not go against the Soviet Union. In turn, he, Comrade Stalin, can assure Chiang Kai-shek that the Soviet Union will not go against China. In the past, the Soviet Union was more than once urged to do so, but the Soviet Union firmly holds to the line of going together with China.

Jiang Jingguo remarks that Chiang Kai-shek has in mind not the present time, but the distant future.

Comrade Stalin says that so much the better, for, of course, in 20, 30, or 40 years, something might indeed happen.

Jiang Jingguo declares that the next point concerns the education of the Chinese people. Chiang Kai-shek has outlined a large and extensive program for educating Guomindang members and student youth in the spirit of rapprochement with the Soviet Union. Chiang Kai-shek wants the Chinese to be disposed toward friendship with the Soviet Union. It must be said that at present the mood of the Chinese is not focused on friendship with the Soviet Union.

Jiang Jingguo declares that Chiang Kai-shek asked him to convey that in future international affairs, China will consult with the Soviet Union in advance and will confer with the Soviet Union so as to present a common point of view.

Comrade Stalin says that until now, Chinese delegates have always spoken against the Soviet delegates. This was the case in San Francisco and in London. For example, in San Francisco there were great disputes over who should chair the conference. The Americans decided that the chairman of the conference should be their delegate. The Soviet delegation proposed that representatives of the four powers chair in rotation. When this proposal was discussed, the Chinese representatives spoke against the Soviet delegation.

Jiang Jingguo replies that in the future the Chinese will stand together with the Soviet Union. At one time, Chiang Kai-shek made efforts to find a way out of the deadlock at the London Conference. Comrade Stalin says that he recently learned of this. It seems that no reply was given to Chiang Kai-shek's proposal. Comrade Molotov says that at the time the situation was uncertain and the Soviet government was waiting to see how it would be resolved.

Comrade Stalin replies that a reply should nevertheless have been given. Indeed, the situation was uncertain. The Soviet government did not know how the matter would end. The Americans and British on one side and the Soviet government on the other were defending their positions. In Moscow they found a way out of the situation.

Jiang Jingguo says that the next question concerns Manchuria. Chiang Kai-shek is very grateful for the assistance of the Soviet command in restoring governmental organs in Manchuria. In one of his conversations with the Chinese representative, Marshal Malinovsky said that Manchuria had been a springboard for an attack on the USSR and emphasized that it must not be such a springboard in the future. In connection with this, Chiang Kai-shek has instructed him, Jiang Jingguo, to assure Generalissimo Stalin that Manchuria will never be a springboard against the Soviet Union. Chinese troops are being sent to Manchuria only to maintain order there. The Chinese government would be prepared not to keep its troops on the border with the Soviet Union. In one of his conversations with Petrov, Chiang Kai-shek said that he is ready to establish on the Soviet-Manchurian border the same regime that exists on the border between America and Canada. As for political measures in Manchuria, Chiang Kai-shek said that, since Manchuria is very close to the Soviet Union and since everything there needs to be built anew, democratization can more easily begin there.

With regard to the economy of Manchuria, Chiang Kai-shek proposes to adhere to an open-door policy, while preserving for the Soviet Union a leading role in the economy.

Comrade Stalin says that the sovereign master of Manchuria must be China. The Soviet Union does not seek a dominant position for itself in Manchuria.

Jiang Jingguo replies that the Chinese government wishes to grant this position to the Soviet Union.

Comrade Stalin expresses gratitude for this.

Jiang Jingguo says that there are products in Manchuria in which the Soviet Union is interested. On the other hand, Manchuria will need economic assistance from the USSR.

Comrade Stalin says that the Soviet Union will buy the products it needs in Manchuria and will, for its part, render it whatever economic assistance is possible.

Jiang Jingguo says that now he wishes to talk about the mixed Soviet-Chinese companies. The Soviet military command considers that all enterprises in Manchuria are war trophies. Comrade Stalin remarks that only those enterprises that served the Japanese Kwantung Army are considered war trophies. Under the laws of war, such enterprises are trophies. Consequently, the Soviet government does not lay claim to all enterprises.

Jiang Jingguo says that, in order to avoid the unfavorable impression that might be created among the population as a result of transferring trophy enterprises to the Soviet Union, Chiang Kai-shek proposes to adopt a different basis to justify their transfer. Chiang Kai-shek proposes to say that, taking into account that the Soviet Army liquidated the Japanese army in Manchuria, suffered losses in doing so, and bearing in mind the friendly relations between the Soviet Union and China, the Chinese government transfers half of the total number of enterprises to the Soviet Union.

Molotov says that, consequently, Chiang Kai-shek would not want these enterprises to be transferred to the Soviet Union as war trophies.

Jiang Jingguo confirms this.

Comrade Stalin says that the Soviet government acted the same way in Poland, which is an allied country, as is China. The Soviet government did not touch Polish enterprises in Poland, but there are enterprises there that were built by the Germans. When Germany was being bombed in the west, the Germans considered that their enterprises would be safe in Poland and that the Red Army was far away from it. The Soviet government declared these German enterprises to be war trophies, but it did not remove all equipment from the factories, leaving about half of the equipment to the Poles. Such are the laws of war. Some countries do not make use of them, while others do.

Comrade Stalin promises to think over Chiang Kai-shek's proposal and to arrange things so that nothing is offensive to China.

Jiang Jingguo says that Marshal Malinovsky presented to the Chinese representatives a list of 140 enterprises that are to be managed by mixed Soviet-Chinese companies. Generalissimo Stalin knows, says Jiang Jingguo, that China does not have heavy industry. Therefore, Chiang Kai-shek would like some of these enterprises to be left at China's disposal.

Comrade Stalin says that this question can be examined and that he is not familiar with it.

Jiang Jingguo says that the Chinese government would not want the creation of one single Soviet-Chinese company. It would be better to create several Soviet-Chinese companies for individual branches of industry, for example, for machine-building, metallurgy, and so forth. The Japanese once had one company for the exploitation of the riches and enterprises of Manchuria, and Chiang Kai-shek's proposal is motivated by a desire to avoid the impression that the Japanese system is being copied.

Comrade Stalin replies that this can be done. Jiang Jingguo declares that Chiang Kai-shek agrees to the organization of Soviet-Chinese mixed companies, but would like the agreement to be signed after the withdrawal of Soviet troops. In the meantime, Chiang Kai-shek agrees to leave Soviet personnel at those enterprises where they are currently working.

Comrade Stalin says that the negotiations can continue even now. The agreement can be signed later, but the sooner the better, since the property may be subject to looting.

Comrade Stalin says that the Soviet command has taken some equipment, but these removals were such that they have not prevented the resumption of factory operations.

Comrade Stalin asks whether the Chinese government will again ask the Soviet government to postpone the withdrawal of Soviet troops.

Jiang Jingguo replies that the request for a postponement of the withdrawal of Soviet troops from February 1 is the last request of the Chinese government.

Jiang Jingguo says that there is one more question: the redemption of banknotes.

Molotov says that an agreement on this has already been concluded.

Jiang Jingguo says that now he would like to speak about Xinjiang. The Chinese government has received a message from the Soviet ambassador that representatives of the insurgents have approached the Soviet consul in Kulja with a request to mediate in the settlement of the conflict. Representatives of the insurgents have already come to Urumqi. The Chinese government is extremely interested in the swiftest possible resolution of the Xinjiang question, because as a result of the cessation of trade with the Soviet Union, the northern part of China has found itself in a difficult economic situation. The insurgents put forward eleven conditions, which were basically accepted by the government. An agreement was reached that the new Xinjiang government would consist of 25 members, of whom 15 would be elected by the population of Xinjiang and 10 would be appointed. However, the representatives of the insurgents have now put forward new demands that the troops of the central government be withdrawn from Xinjiang within one month. Of course, the central government is withdrawing its troops from Xinjiang, but it would not like to specify in the agreement that the troops will be withdrawn within one month, as this is incompatible with the prestige of the central government.

Molotov asks which troops the representatives of the insurgents are demanding be withdrawn.

Jiang Jingguo replies that they are demanding the withdrawal of those troops that were sent to Xinjiang to suppress the uprising.

Comrade Stalin asks whether Chiang Kai-shek wants the Soviet government to intervene.

Jiang Jingguo replies that Chiang Kai-shek wants the Soviet government to act as mediator. Comrade Stalin replies that the Soviet government will do everything possible. The insurgents do not reject the mediation of the Soviet government. Comrade Stalin promises to give a final answer after information is received from the Soviet consul. Jiang Jingguo says that now he will turn to the question of China's relations with America. Chiang Kai-shek has instructed him to frankly declare to Generalissimo Stalin that China is interested in cooperation between China, the Soviet Union, and the USA, since an alliance among them is of great significance not only for the Far East but for the whole world. Not one American representative among those who visited China and talked with Chiang Kai-shek, and in particular General Marshall, ever spoke ill of the Soviet Union. General Marshall said that he fully trusts Generalissimo Stalin. Various kinds of talk are pursued only by those people who seek to make capital for themselves from it. Chiang Kai-shek declares that he is interested in an alliance of the Soviet Union, China, and the USA.

Comrade Stalin remarks that Chiang Kai-shek is right.

Jiang Jingguo says that, however, by reason of historical and geographical causes, China is closer to the Soviet Union. China has directly declared that it expects economic assistance from the USA, but it will not lose its independence in policy.

Comrade Stalin says that this is correct.

Jiang Jingguo says that now he would like to say a few words about the American marines in North China. The presence of American troops in North China was provided for by an agreement concluded even before the capitulation of Japan. The plan envisaged the landing of seven American divisions. After the capitulation of Japan, there turned out to be no troops of the central government of China in North China, as they had been pushed back to the southern regions, and American troops were landed to disarm the Japanese.

Comrade Stalin asks whether the Japanese troops have really not yet been disarmed. Comrade Stalin says that in Changchun, 25 Soviet soldiers disarmed two Japanese corps. The Japanese did not resist. All Japanese troops in Manchuria were disarmed by Soviet troops within ten days. The Japanese, says Comrade Stalin, will not resist now. One must act more boldly. It is easy to disarm the Japanese.

Jiang Jingguo declares that the American troops will be withdrawn as soon as they fulfill their task.

Comrade Stalin declares that the Soviet government would not want American troops to enter Manchuria. This is a Soviet zone. It seems the Americans do not intend to enter there either. Neither English nor other foreign troops should be admitted into Manchuria.

Jiang Jingguo replies that American troops will not enter Manchuria, and again repeats that they will generally be withdrawn from China as soon as they fulfill their task.

Comrade Stalin declares that the presence of foreign troops in China will lead to the undermining of Chiang Kai-shek's authority, and that, on the contrary, if there are no foreign troops in China, then Chiang Kai-shek's authority will be greater.

Jiang Jingguo declares that the government of the USA states that it is helping China in the matter of creating armed forces, but he, Jiang Jingguo, must say that this is only propaganda.

Comrade Stalin remarks that the Americans helped the Chinese organize several divisions in South China. There is nothing bad in this.

Jiang Jingguo says that Chiang Kai-shek would like to learn the opinion of Generalissimo Stalin on how best to deal with Japan.

Comrade Stalin replies that an Allied Council will now be established in Tokyo. The Americans did not want this. Everyone was against the Soviet government, which advocated the proposal to create an Allied Council.

Molotov remarks that in London, Wang Shijie expressed sympathy for this proposal, but wanted it to be discussed not in London.

Comrade Stalin says that now the matter has been won. An Allied Council will be established in Tokyo, where the question raised by Chiang Kai-shek will need to be resolved. As for the Soviet government, it stands not only for taking away Japan's armaments but also for destroying in Japan those branches of industry that produce warships and armaments. Such is the point of view of the Soviet government. It disagreed with the Americans, who did not take the Japanese army prisoner. The Soviet government took the Japanese army prisoner. He, Comrade Stalin, told the Americans that MacArthur should, at the very least, give the order to arrest 8,000-10,000 or 12,000 members of the Japanese high command: generals of the land army, admirals, and air force generals. Now the Americans are trying them one by one.

The Americans reason differently from the Soviet government. The Americans are now treating Japan the same way they treated Germany after the last world war, when they preserved its officer corps and generalship. He, Comrade Stalin, several times told the Americans to take the Japanese army prisoner, but they answer that they would have nowhere to put the men. In any case, the Soviet government will strive to ensure that Japan does not retain its generalship. Such is the policy of the Soviet government.

Jiang Jingguo remarks that the Chinese people will never forget the Japanese.

Comrade Stalin says that the Chinese people are good, but the leaders must be good too.

Jiang Jingguo says that he remembers how Generalissimo Stalin said that Japan might rise to its feet again.

Comrade Stalin replies that, of course, this may happen, for Japan is a numerous and vengeful nation. Japan will wish to rise. To prevent this, it is necessary to take prisoner 500,000-600,000 officers and some 12,000 members of the Japanese high command. Comrade Stalin says that the Americans have not experienced Japanese occupation, and therefore they do not understand everything. China experienced Japanese occupation. The Soviet Union experienced German occupation, and in its time, Japanese occupation. Therefore, China and the Soviet Union understand that the enemy must be placed in such conditions that it can no longer wage war. The Americans, however, do not understand this. He, Comrade Stalin, hopes that they will come to understand it.

Jiang Jingguo asks how things now stand in Japan with the police.

Molotov replies that in Japan the police is Japanese.

Jiang Jingguo says that the Japanese can turn the police into an army.

Comrade Stalin remarks that the Japanese will, of course, try to preserve their officer cadres in the police, but when Soviet representatives arrive in Tokyo, they will try to put an end to this.

Jiang Jingguo declares that he has exhausted all his questions. In concluding the conversation, he, Jiang Jingguo, conveys to Comrade Stalin and Comrade Molotov greetings from T.V. Soong.

Molotov asks whether the question of the recognition by the Chinese government of the independence of Outer Mongolia has been resolved.

Jiang Jingguo says that the decision of the Chinese government on the recognition of the independence of Outer Mongolia will be published in the first days of January, when the Chinese government moves to Nanjing.

The conversation lasted 1 hour 40 minutes.

Source: Ledovsky A.M. SSSR i Stalin v sud'bakh Kitaya. Dokumenty i svidetel'stva uchastnikov sobytiy 1937-1952 gg. [The USSR and Stalin in the Destinies of China. Documents and Testimonies of Participants in Events, 1937-1952]. Moscow, 1999. Pp. 15-29.

Note

Jiang Jingguo was the son of Chiang Kai-shek. In the 1920s he studied in the USSR. He joined the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks). After the Second World War he carried out a confidential mission in the Soviet Union.