Discussion with Economists on Political Economy Textbook

Record of the Discussion of 30 May 1950

Record of the Discussion of 30th May 1950

Began at 19 hours and ended at 20 hours

How do you think that the text on pre-monopoly capitalism should be submitted? By chapters?

Nothing would work out in separate chapters. We need an overall picture. That is why I asked for all the chapters to be submitted together. You cannot examine it in separate chapters. It is necessary to depict pre-monopoly capitalism as a whole, immediately give a review of the corresponding economic views, and give the criticism that Marx made of regarding the preceding political economy.

Regarding the plan of the section on pre-monopoly capitalism, how do you intend to submit the portion on primary accumulation – in a separate chapter?

(
Answer
: No, this would go into the chapter on the
emergence of capitalism.)

In the plan it is proposed to elucidate the question of 'Trading capital and trading profit' only in the XIIIth chapter, after having given the characteristics of industrial capital. Historically this is wrong. The analysis of trading capital should be given earlier. I would put the topic of trading capital before the emergence of the capitalist mode of production. Trading capital precedes industrial capital. Trading capital stimulated the emergence of manufacture.

(
Note
: We propose here to examine trading capital in the
framework of the distribution of the surplus value under capitalism, and in the chapter on feudalism we talk about the role of trading capital of that period).

In that case the heading is ineffectual, then give the chapter-heading as 'Trading profit', otherwise people may understand you as saying that the trading capital emerges only during the period of machine production, and this is historically incorrect.

In general you are avoiding the historical method in the textbook. In the introduction you say that the description would be conducted using the historical method, and yet you avoid it. The historical method is necessary in this textbook, it is not possible to do without it. Nobody with us would understand why trading capital is placed after the examination of the period of machine production under capitalism.

The tone used in the chapter on feudalism is also wrong, it is the popular bazaar tone of a grandfather explaining things to children. Everybody turns up in here -- the feudal turns up, the trader turns up, the buyers-up appear, like puppets on the stage.

You should picture the readership for whom you are writing. You should have in view not stereotypes but people who have finished 8-10 classes. And you are explaining here a word such as regulation and you think that without an explanation they would not understand. You have adopted a wrong tone. You speak as if you are narrating fairy tales.

In the chapter on feudalism you write that the town again separates from the countryside. The first time the town separated from the countryside was during the slave society, and, then again it got separated under feudalism. This is nonsense. As if along with the slave society, the towns also were destroyed. The towns emerged during slave society. During the period of feudalism the towns remained. It is true that in the first period they developed feebly but subsequently the towns grew strong. The separation of the town from the villages remained. With the discovery of America and the expansion of the markets, trade was developed in the towns and huge riches were accumulated.

In the chapter on feudalism nothing is said about the discovery of America. Very little is said about Russia. You will have to say more about Russia, beginning with feudalism. In the chapter on feudalism you must throw light on feudalism in Russia until the Emancipation Act.

During feudalism there existed extremely large towns for the period: Genoa, Venice and Florence. During feudalism trade reached huge volumes. Florence could leave ancient Rome far behind.

Under slave society large towns and large scale production came into existence. As long as there was slave labour, and cheap labour was available there could be large scale production, and big latifundia. Immediately as the slave labour became less available the latifundia started to be divided up. The earlier vivacity is already missing. But the towns remained, they stayed alive. Trade also was conducted, there were ships of 150 oars.

Some of the historians create an impression that the Middle ages were a time of degradation in comparison to the slave society, that there was no movement ahead. But this is incorrect.

In the chapter on feudalism you have not even mentioned what kind of labour was the basis of the feudal society. But you have to show that in the world of antiquity slave labour was the basis , and under feudalism it was peasant labour.

When the large latifundia in slave society fell apart, the system of slavery fell too, the slave was no more, but the peasant remained. And even under the slave system there were peasants, but they were few and always under threat of becoming slaves. The Roman empire was conquered by the so-called 'barbarian' tribes. Feudalism arose when two societies confronted each other: on the one hand -- the Roman empire and, on the other -- the barbarian tribes, which fought against Rome. This question has been sidestepped, the 'barbarian' tribes have not even been named. Which tribes were these? These were the Germans, Slavs, Gallic tribes and others. These tribes at the time of the conquest of Rome had a commune system. It was particularly strong among the Germans where it was represented by the Mark. The agricultural commune began to coalesce with the remnants of the slave system of Rome and the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire exhibited remarkable endurance. First it broke into two parts: the western and the eastern Empires. Even long after the western Empire was destroyed the Eastern Roman Empire continued to exist for a long time.

It is necessary to clearly and precisely state that peasant labour was the main basis of the existence of the feudal society.

We always say that capitalism has its origins in the feudal system. This is true and unquestionable and it must be demonstrated historically how did this happen. One does not feel that capitalism was born within the feudal society. We do not have here the discovery of America. But, after all, the discovery of America happened during the middle ages prior to the bourgeois revolutions. They were looking for the sea route to India and hit upon a new continent. But this is not essential. What is important is that there occurred a huge degree of growth in trade and a big expansion of the market. Thus were created the conditions wherein the first capitalist manufacturists were able to break apart the guild system. Thus was created a huge demand for commodities and the manufacture system emerged in order to satisfy this demand. That is how capitalism emerged. All this is missing in the chapter on the feudal system. To write a textbook is no simple task. One has to deeply consider history. You have done a hack-work of writing the chapter on feudalism. That is how you have gotten used to delivering your lectures, all wishy-washy. And every one listens to you there and nobody criticises you.

The textbook is written for millions of people, it would be read and studied not only with us but in the whole world. The Americans and the Chinese would be reading it and it would be studied in all the countries. You must have a more qualified readership in view.

Slave society – is the first class society. It is the most engaging society before capitalism. The ills of class society have been taken to their limits in it. Now, when capitalism is facing trouble, it is reverting to the methods of the slave owners. In antiquity wars were conducted so as to acquire slaves. And Hitler in our time started a war to enslave other nations, especially the nations of the Soviet Union. This was also a manhunt. Hitler obtained slaves from everywhere. Hitler had transported millions of foreign workers into Germany, there were Italians and Bulgars and the inhabitants of other countries. He wanted to revive slavery. But he failed. Therefore, when capitalism is in trouble it reverts to the old and most savage methods of slavery.

The bourgeois textbooks talk a lot about the democratic movement in Antiquity and praise the 'Golden Age of Pericles'. It must be shown that democracy in the world of antiquity was a democracy for the slave owners.

I really request you to relate more seriously to the textbook. If you do not know the material study it from books and other sources or ask competent people. The textbook is going to be read by everybody. It will be an example for everybody. You must redo the chapter on the feudal system. It is necessary to show the source of feudalism. The slave owning elite was eliminated and slavery fell apart. But the land remained, the handicrafts remained, the coloni
remained
and the peasant labour remained. The town remained and they prospered towards the end of the Middle ages.

It is necessary to begin the age of capitalism with the bourgeois revolutions -- in England, in France, and the peasant reforms in Russia. By this time capitalism has already acquired its own foundation within feudalism.

It is better to bring a part of materials relating to the emergence of capitalism into the chapter on feudalism.

It is necessary to show the role and significance of state power in the period of feudalism. When the Roman Empire ended, the decentralisation of power and the economy began to take place. The feudals waged war against each other. Small kingdoms were created. State power became fictitious. Every landlord put up his own customs barriers. Centralised power became necessary. Later it acquired real force when nation states began to be organised on the basis of emergence of the national markets. The growth of trade demanded national markets. And here not a word is said about the national markets. The feudals obstructed trade. They fenced themselves off by means of various tariffs and taxes. It is necessary to mention this even if only in a couple of words.

The feudal system is more near to us -- it was there only yesterday. In this chapter one must speak about Russia and the peasant reforms, how the peasants were emancipated -- with land or without land. The landlords were afraid that the emancipation of the peasants would take place from below, therefore the State conducted the reforms from above. With us the system of serf labour was ended when the peasant reform took place, and in France -- it happened at the time of the bourgeois revolution.

In the chapter the propositions being discussed are correct. But all this is spread about, it is not concentrated and it is not done consistently. And the main thing is not mentioned. Which labour formed the central basis of the feudal society?

A quotation from Ilyich is cited to establish that the serf system was based on the stick. This quotation has been taken out of context. Lenin had paid a lot of attention to the economic aspect of the question. It is impossible to keep people under the stick for 600-700 years. The main thing is not the stick, but that the land belonged to the landlords. The land was the basis and the stick was the supplement. You take quotations from Marx and Lenin without thinking in what connection a particular thought was expressed.

Do not be stingy about economic ideas. By acquainting oneself with these ideas the reader gets a more concrete elucidation of the epoch. You must mention mercantilism and Colbert. Within the country Colbert brought down the tariffs but fenced off the State with high tariffs in order to stimulate the development of manufacture and capital in the country. Mercantilism existed prior to the bourgeois revolution.

I make some observations about the democratic movement in ancient Rome and Greece and have written about a page for you. In the chapter on slavery you had not given any criticism of the bourgeois theories of the democratic movement in ancient Rome and Greece. This movement is praised not only in the bourgeois literature but in some of the books with us. The French revolutionaries would swear by the name of the Gracchi.

It is necessary to elucidate by using the historical method once you have taken the job up.

One should not be carried away by the style of bazaar propaganda or popular language because then it would appear like a grandfather is telling stories.

It turns out with you that the town got separated from the countryside a second time. The separation was there and it remained, no reason for it to separate again. The old town under the slave system was not severed from the countryside. The separation of the town was further developed during the end of the Middle Ages. Its enough to recall such towns as Venice and Florence. Recall the hanses. What trade they had, what ships! The trading capital played a major role. The kings remained dependent on the large traders.

Venice conquered Constantinople. It hired soldiers and conquered it. The bounds of trade greatly expanded. Within feudalism a powerful trading class emerged. It was pocketing high dividends. In antiquity two of the biggest traders were -- one Hittite, whose name I do not remember, and one Phoenician by the name of Hiram. They had a lot of money and they would lend money even to the state. But in comparison to the Fuggers they were nothing.

(
Question
: In relation to your suggestion it is not
clear whether the question of the commodity is to be partly included in the section on feudalism, as it was in the model?)

Of course it is better to speak of the commodity in the chapter on feudalism. But the full question of the commodity in its entirety needs to be given in the section on capitalism. We agreed, did we not, on following the historical method.

Marx went according to another method. He began with the commodity as the economic cell of capitalism, investigated and turned it over from all sides. But you give the question of the commodity in parts and sum up in the chapter on capitalism. This makes it easier to master. It is necessary to give the theory of commodity in separate elements, as corresponding relations emerge.

(
Question
: As we are going to jot down the economic
thought of the period of pre-monopoly capital, what do we do with the explication of Lenin's works. Where do we put them?)

In the chapter on pre-monopoly capitalism one must explain the works of Lenin right up to the publication of his work on Imperialism, or, to be precise, the publication of his article against Trotsky
On the Slogan of the United
States of Europe
. Here the works of the period of so-called free capitalism
must be explained, when different countries were steadily coming up to the level of the others and occupying lands yet unoccupied by anybody else. Then a new period began -- a period of monopoly capital. Thus, the elucidation of Lenin's works must be done in two parts.

The ideology of capitalism in the pre-monopoly period is altogether different from the monopoly period. At that time the bourgeoisie would by all means run feudalism down, would talk of freedom, praised liberalism. It is altogether different under Imperialism, when the ideologues of capitalism throw away all the remnants of liberalism and glean the most reactionary views of the preceding epochs. Now there is an altogether different ideology.

(
Question
: We have faced a similar question: in the
section on pre-monopoly capitalism we explain a number of themes to which we never come back in the section on Imperialism, for example, rent from land. Can we give here concrete factual data relating to contemporary capitalism?)

Obviously, you may. After all Imperialism is also capitalism.

(
Question
: In the chapter about the period of
machine production do we limit ourselves, as Marx did, only to steam-powered machines, or, do we show the further development -- of the internal combustion and electrical engines, without which there is no system of machines?)

Certainly, one must speak about the system of machines too. Marx, after all, wrote in the [18]60's and since then technology has progressed way ahead.

You will have to expand the chapter on feudalism by another 15-20 pages.

(
Question
: Should we not make two chapters -- 1)
the main features of the feudal mode of production and 2) decline of the feudal mode of production?)

You decide this yourself as you find necessary. The chapter on feudalism has to be modified almost on the same pattern which was used for writing the chapter on slavery.

In the chapter on feudalism it is necessary to indicate the economic system of the 'barbarian' tribes. One must show what happened when the so-called barbarian tribes and slave-owning Rome met.

In the beginning there was no serfdom, it took place later. It is necessary to show how the relations of serfdom were created. Maybe it is necessary to divide feudalism in two periods: the early and the later.

About manufacture do not speak a lot, it is not the most interesting period of capitalism. Under manufacture the technology is old, in fact it is nothing more than bloated handicrafts. A new quality is imparted by machines. Manufacture can be cut down, do not get carried away. The machine period changed everything.

A period of one month is insufficient to write the chapter on pre-monopoly capitalism. I think the writing of the textbook will take the whole of this year. And some of it might even take up part of the next year. It is a very serious matter.

We think that in the textbook we must print the names of all the members of the Commission and also print 'approved by the CC AUCP(b)'.

Drafted according to the notes of:

[I.D.] Laptev, [L.A.] Leontyev, [K.V.] Ostrovityanov, [A.I.] Pashkov, [D.T.] Shepilov and [P.F.] Yudin.

The words in brackets belong to the members of the Commission.